How to help your community cats with Stacy Lebaron
Stacy Lebaron is the host of the Community Cats Podcast. We learn all about what community cats are, how we can help them and the support available to help community cats.
What we talk about
How Stacy became a cat person
How Stacy became involved in animal rescue
What is a community cat?
What is a colony of cats?
Why is it best to trap neuter and return?
How to trap a cat
How to find out if a cat is being looked after by anyone
How to find a cat organisation to work with
Other terms for TNR etc
Cats vs kittens
Finding people to help you with community cats in your area
The Catmobile
About the Community Cats Podcast
How can we each help community cats?
How to find a reputable organisation to work with
How to manage attachment to the cats you work with
Resources to help community cats
Community Cats Grant program
Advice for people who are new to helping community cats
Most entertaining comment about community cats
Who in the community cats space inspires Stacy
Product, service or program that has been a gamechanger for Stacy
How to leave a review
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Catexplorer Community Facebook Group
Join the Catexplorer Community Facebook Group here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/catexplorer.community/
Guest – Stacy Lebaron from the Community Cats Podcast
Podcast – Community Cats Podcast
Instagram – @communitycatspodcast
Facebook – Community Cats Podcast
Twitter - @communitycatsp1
Resources
People who inspire Stacy
Podcast Sponsor – Wee Kitty Eco Plant Litter by Rufus & Coco
The NEW Wee Kitty Eco Plant by Rufus & Coco is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers. It's the natural litter for cats who care and the humans who love them. Reduce your carbon pawprint and make the switch - Head to https://www.weekittylitter.com to find a store near and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter!
Episode review
Inspiring and Informative
★★★★★
Hasara and Daniel’s rapport with each other and their amazing guests make listening to this podcast like a conversation you are a part of. They invite interesting people to share things that make everyone want to try to enhance the lives of their cats through exploring. Cat owning apartment dwellers and mountaineers can all gain something from this podcast. Right from the cheerful jingling start, you won’t want to miss a moment of Catexplorer Podcast.
bytrueindigo
Music
Music for this episode was composed and performed by Kory McIntyre.
Cover art
The photo used for the cover art for Season 5 of Catexplorer Podcast is of @thegibsonchronicles
Transcript
Please note - this an automatic transcript, and as such may not be very accurate.
Stacy Lebaron 0:00
So colony of cats are basically a group of cats that feed out of the same general area. So if there's a restaurant around, and they have an open dumpster, oftentimes, community cats will go in will sort of collect around that sort of feeding area. Hasara Lay 0:18 Join us as we had two amazing cat explorers and experts, learn from them, listen to their war stories, celebrate their wins, and laugh at the funny moments that have been a part of the journey. Welcome to the cat explorer podcast. I'm Hasara. Daniel Lay 0:40 And I'm Daniel. We have an exciting episode for you today. But before we jump in, you know the drill. we'd love it if you could screenshot your phone. And then once you're done listening, share it to Instagram stories. Let us know what your main takeaways are. And tag us at caring for community and our awesome guests, community cats podcast and when we share it Hasara Lay 1:00 This episode is brought to you by the new week at eco plant litter. The new week he co plant by Rufus and kircher is made from sustainable and naturally absorbent wheat and soy fibers is the National linna for cats who care and the humans who love them. reduce your carbon footprint and make the switch head to www wiki.com to find a store near you and for your chance to win a year's supply of kitty litter. Today's review is from the lovely teacher Indigo inspiring and informative Hassan Daniel's rapport with each other and their amazing guests make listening to this podcast like a conversation you're a part of. They invite interesting people to share things that make everyone want to try and enhance the lives of their cats through exploring cat earning apartment dwellers and mountaineers can gain something from this podcast right from the cheerful jingling stopped. You won't want to miss a moment of the cat explorer podcast. Oh my goodness. Thank you So much for that show Indigo. I really do appreciate it. We would love it if you could leave a review for the cat explorer podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you. Daniel Lay 2:10 Today's guest is a force within the community cat circles. Stacy lebaron is the host of the community cats podcast. She was also the president of the Merrimack River feline society for 16 years, she has run a mentoring program that has helped 80 organizations set up trap and neuter programs. And today, we're so lucky to have Stacy with us to share more about how we can help community cats. Welcome to the cat explorer podcast. Stacey, thank you so much for having me. We're so excited to chat to you. But um, let's start from the beginning. How did you become a cat person? Well, I grew up with a cat named Duncan, who my mother got as a kitten. And she thought that Duncan was a boy but ended up Duncan was a girl and Duncan ended up being a kind of a grumpy cat. So I grew up with the unadoptable Grumpy Cat, and I loved her. She lived to be 20 years old. We always only had one Stacy Lebaron 3:00 kettner household, so it wasn't like I was filled with a ton of cats. But Duncan really taught me about patience, personal space, all of those fun issues. And it just stayed with me. I just loved cats. My mother loved cats, and it continued on with me. Well, that's lovely. And it's got so many parallels with Sarah's upbringing where she had a cat for 20 years. And it really gave her that support and instilled in her this love of cats that she's carried through ever since. So, with regards to cats moving on, how did you get involved in Animal Rescue then? Yeah, it's really funny. I mean, this whole path that we take in animal welfare is so interesting, and I'm sure you both have had interesting paths to AI. You know, I love cats. When I was living in an apartment, there was an older cat around the corner and I had started feeding that cat. They really didn't know anything about community cats at that point in time. You know, I called the cat Watson. He was this black cat and we had a tooth hanging out and all this other stuff. And and then I moved into it. town that had this trap neuter return program and had just opened an adoption center, which was the Merrimack River feline rescue society. And I went into their new adoption center, all proud and excited with my one bag of litter and when my one bag of food and I thought I was going to go save the day, and they had 80 cats that had just come in through rewarding situation, and to people taking care of those cats, and they looked so exhausted, and they look so sad. But when I brought in my little food and my little litter, they were so thankful. And I thought, oh my goodness, how could they be thankful when they're so overwhelmed? And that was the beginning of my learning process of what the sheltering world was like. I gave a donation I got on their mailing list, they asked for someone to be the secretary of their board. I'm like, Well, I can type I can put stuff in the computer. I was really leery of actually being in the shelter. I'm like, Oh, I want to take all the kitties home. I'll never, you know all those original thoughts that we all have. So I thought well, like if I'm by the computer, then I'm okay. So I just Their board as the Secretary then became vice president, and then I became the board president. And I was in that position for about 16 years. And, you know, really enjoyed it. And I did a lot of fundraising and I did get my hands dirty and got in there and was taking care of the cats and learning to medicate cats and all that kind of stuff, too. But uh, you know, it's one of those like, you just keep taking another step forward, another step forward. And there were many moments along the way where I was like, I just don't want to see this ever again, let's what can we do in order to prevent this from happening in the future. And so that's how I got all involved. And we have one of the most successful programs in the country. And that's why I sort of expanded out into the community cats podcast. That's so awesome. It's amazing to hear your journey from right in the beginning to where you are now, before we jumped on to our record this morning. Daniel and I are having a chat and we realized that we have very different views on what a community cat is. Do you mind letting us know what your thoughts are on what Community cat is Sure, sure. So I would define a community cat as basically being any cat with four paws that primarily have their four paws outdoors. Daniel Lay 7:00 You mentioned the colony of cats. What is that? Yeah. So colony of cats are basically a group of cats that feed out of the same general area. So if there's a restaurant around, and they have an open dumpster, oftentimes, community cats will go in, boom, sort of collect around that sort of feeding area. Stacy Lebaron 7:21 Or people will feed cats. In the United States. 50% of people will feed cats that they don't know who who owns them. So we all we love to feed the birds. We love to feed the cats we love to feed. My grandmother used to carry dog bones in her car, so she could feed the neighborhood dogs at the post office. So I think we all have a long history and a tradition of wanting to feed the animals and I know there are people who feed squirrels and you know, all chipmunks and all kinds of animals so and whether or not that's right or wrong, there's accessible food out there. And so cats are going to create what we call a colony of cats. So they're all sort of living In this one area and as we progress and and talk about how in the United States we've done trap neuter return, they have shelter in these areas. So in the, in the colder areas, they'll have protective shelters as well as designated feeding areas and it's a really pretty organized event, you know, to maintain that colony. Hasara Lay 8:22 That's so interesting. It's um, I'm not gonna lie It's it's actually a lot broader than what I thought it was like I for some reason in my head, I thought a community cat was one that lives outside doesn't isn't necessarily owned by maybe fed or whatnot and things like that. So that's really interesting. So, Unknown Speaker 8:41 what is Tana Hasara Lay 8:42 and why is it best to TNR I suppose, Stacy Lebaron 8:46 trap neuter return is what TNR is some organizations will call it trap neuter release. Some organizations will call it trap neuter, vaccinate and release and some organizations will do trap neuter return and management. So We all have our acronyms. And it's funny because we'll have a conversation with somebody who's not in the animal welfare space at all. And they're like, What are you saying, I have no idea what you're talking about. And it's so funny because we go TNR this and, you know, returned to feel dead and all this other stuff. And it's so funny because it's really it a lot of words that people don't really understand the meaning behind. So trap neuter return, I'm going to go with that. TNR is the concept of trapping free roaming cats in a designated area, getting them spayed or neutered, having them get a rabies vaccination, they also get ear tip, which is a little snip taken off their left ear, so that then they can be visually recognized and understood to know that they are sterilized so that they're always going to be seen that way. So an animal control officer or a neighborhood person, anybody will be like, oh, somebody is taking care of this cat because it's got the little snip on its left ear. So it's an F Big identification piece. And then once they get their surgery and their ear tipping, they're returned back to their colony. And in most environments, usually there's a designated care taker or somebody who is feeding the cats and so that they're there to ensure that if somebody gets hurt, or if there's a new addition to the colony, there's a an accountability there to ensure that that colony is stabilized. And, ideally, over time, that number of cats will go down in Newburyport, Massachusetts, which has a very well known case study for the success of the 300 cat colony. They started doing trap neuter return in 1992. And by 2008, the whole 300 cat colony was gone. So they had died out and then not in a sad way. I mean, they had aged out the cat, many of the cats lived to be between 16 and 18 years of age. And so it was a very successful program. We had 14 Feeding stations with multiple feeders and little picture books with the pictures of the cats and they got sardines every Sunday by one feeder that went around to all 14 feeding stations. And that is a documented success example of why trap neuter return is successful and works. Daniel Lay 11:17 So you mentioned how you had one instance where this calling eventually died out. And part of the idea here is to return them. Can you talk to us a little bit about why this concept of trap neuter return? There is a return part to it. Stacy Lebaron 11:30 Yeah, sure. So many of the cats that are trapped are considered not adoptable. They're not socialized, they're very shy and skittish, and so many people would determine those cats to not be adoptable for a home life environment. They're used to being outdoors, they're used to, you know, doing their cat things, they have their buddies, and so it's one of those things where it's best to neuter them and return them. Because in many cases, the other option is euthanasia. And these cats are healthy. They're not sickly. They're healthy. The Merrimack River feline rescue society has offered free spay neuter for feral cats since 2000. And on a monthly clinic with donated services by veterinarians, and when they bring the cats in, in what's called a humane trap, they look at their coat, they look at their teeth, they see what their weight is. And if they are aren't healthy, then they will, you know, address those issues. But if they look good, then the assumption is, you know, there's somebody feeding them in the case of Newburyport, we knew there were people feeding them because we had dedicated volunteers but in some environments, you might not have that much information. But if you look at them, if you have a 16 pound cat coming in to be neutered at a clinic, somebody is feeding that cat even though you might not specifically know who it is. And so Daniel Lay 12:57 you mentioned a humane trap. Can you talk us through What that means then, is that part of that process of how you track it? Yeah, so there's lots of tools. And I actually run a series of webinars with an organization called neighborhood cats. And one of their webinars is around trappers tips and tricks. And so a humane trap. It's like a box trap. Stacy Lebaron 13:20 Some people might use some of these humane traps for trapping squirrels or, or other animals, and these are bigger traps. And then when people lose their dogs, they even have really super big traps that are to trap dogs. And so they're box traps and you can set them up and you beat them and the calves get trapped in them. They're able to be kept in them overnight while they wait for surgery. And then they're they're kept covered and calm. There's a whole process about how to do that in a way so that it works well for everybody. Nobody gets scratched, nobody gets bitten, it's safe, and then and then they return the next time. There's also another tool called the drop trap, which is used for cats that are really trap savvy and can identify a box trap. And the drop trap is it's a rip pulled on a string. And it's a big box and it's open. cats don't like looking at something that doesn't have an opening, they always want a second exit. So sometimes the box trap is is hard for some cats because they'll be like, Oh, I know there's tuna in there. But I don't want to go all the way in because I think there's like a wall on the other side. So the box trap is a good way to to the bigger drop trap is a better way to go for like that last cat in the colony because the objective is always to get the whole colony done. Because as we all know, this all starts with Adam and Eve. And if Adam and Eve are not spayed or neutered, then you're going to have the beginning of a feral cat colony and Adam and Eve were probably at one time owned by people. So you know, our focus is always to get them spayed or neutered, before they get abandoned or prevent that abandonment. Do whatever programs we have that we can, but if they do, then we want to make They're spayed or neutered so that they're not going to create any feral kittens out there, Hasara Lay 15:04 kind of maybe think about something. So a couple of blocks away from where we live, because we go to the gym every morning around 5am. We'll see, as we're driving down, we see all these cats. And for a really long time, I've just assumed that there were cats that run but now talking to you, I wonder if they're a colony of cats, because there's some kittens in there. They look really small. How do we identify whether they're a colony of cats who need our help or whether someone is looking after them? So in Australia, when a cat is needed, or dissects they get a tattoo on the SRS? I suppose I can go looking for that tattoo. But is there any other way that I can check if this they're being fed by someone else? So if anyone else is looking after them, Stacy Lebaron 15:45 so I would say I don't know if there is a local organization cat organization? If not, I have to say it's Get to know your neighbors really. If there is a friendly cat In this group, you can also sometimes put like a paper color on the friendly cat and say, you know, is anybody taking care of me and my friends, I would like to know, that kind of thing. Because if you have multiple people feeding the same colony of cats and say, then you have kittens in there that you want to get trapped, and you want to get them trapped, say at six weeks of age, so that then there's the ability for them to be brought into foster homes, and get socialized and get placed. It's very hard to trap a cat when multiple people are feeding because a cat's not going to go into a trap unless they're hungry. And so if someone's feeding the next door down, so that's why it really takes a lot of community involvement, to be able to fully identify how a cat colony is being managed. So I would recommend, if there's a friendly cat there, put a tag on it. Check with a local cat group if you do have a local cat group around and or, you know Not sure if it's an apartment building or what type of a business it is, but you just have to do some fact finding first. Hasara Lay 17:06 Yeah, it's so interesting say that because we actually have another colony of cats near our apartment and just talking to our neighbors. That's how I found out that they were actually being fed by some other people. So in terms of finding those cat organizations, how do we go about that? Like, I suppose we could Google and things like that? Or is there any other? Is there a set of wed that we should be googling for? Stacy Lebaron 17:26 Yeah, I mean, I'd say that the standard word is either trap neuter return or feral cat colony, or cat organization even and that will start the process through and I do have to say, I guess it is googling it at this point in time is the best way to go. unless you happen to know of anyone in your own personal community that might have you know, some resources. Obviously, we all are on Facebook and Instagram and, you know, they a lot of people know, resources and are willing to share So our social communities might help us out. We have a business in the States, at least called next door. And people can post on on there, and then residents can respond. I'm not sure what you might have where you are. But it's very interesting, I find that we're a much more isolated country or community than we were maybe 20 or 30 years ago. And that's unfortunate in the situation of learning about the cats that are in our community. Hasara Lay 18:33 And I guess we could also ask our local veterinarians as well, they might have a bit of an idea. They'd be the ones treating them here. Stacy Lebaron 18:40 Yeah, definitely. And you have to be somewhat careful about like the rules in your community too. So I wouldn't necessarily rush to your local officials unless you know for sure that what their position is with regards to the cats so you don't necessarily want to identify the colony of cats. If it's a in their best interest to trap and remove the cats because you want to be able to present present a really a good process to elected officials or to your community officials in any way and say, Hey, you know, we have a plan, we're going to handle this, don't worry about it. I mean, and in my world, elected officials, and police and fire department, if you say I'll take care of it, they love you, you know. So it's just it's a community based solution, it's really the best way to go. Hasara Lay 19:32 They want you to come with the solutions rather than the problem really. Stacy Lebaron 19:35 100%. Daniel Lay 19:37 And on that topic, am I correct in my understanding that this trap neuter release program or stance is a little bit different all around the world? And that, yeah, it does vary from country to country or province or state to state. Stacy Lebaron 19:51 Oh, it's definitely treated differently in different countries all around the world. And it's fascinating. It's very interesting. Even In county to county around the country. I did a poll in my online cat conference several months ago. And I said, you know, what's the responsibility of municipal leaders in being involved with trap neuter return and most of my attendees were from the United States, but 98% felt that municipality should play some sort of a progressive role with regards to trap neuter return for the cats in their community, which I thought was quite amazing because I know that there are quite a few areas where there's no interest at all. So obviously, it's a biased group, but I also think that municipal officials can be positive but they can also be negative. There are a lot of areas in the country where it's illegal to put food out. It's illegal to do trap neuter return you can get fined you can get in trouble and people have to do a lot of traveling to return either, you know, under the under the radar. Or they can't. And there's a lot of a lot of problems with that. Hasara Lay 21:05 And yet on that as well, so where Daniel and I obviously live in Australia, and I know there are certain towns or cities or even neighborhoods where it's illegal for cats to even just be outside. So in those situations trap neuter return wouldn't really work because there's cats. I don't I think that what happens to those cats varies based on where they are. But there are concerns about what could happen there. So I'd really recommend checking the laws and the rules and the regulations in your own area as well. I did want to ask, Is there any alternative names attempts? Watanabe's? I, my understanding for example, in Australia, we don't actually use the term neuter that much we call it de sexing. So is there any other terms that people should be looking out for? Stacy Lebaron 21:47 Well, the only other term that I'm aware of that's used is return to field which is a little bit even newer term, then trap neuter return trap neuter return has been around since the late 80s. And was donated in England, when they started traveling to return back then and then sort of migrated over to the United States. Yeah, I mean you you say D sexing. So I and I do not know of other terms out there but I'm sure there's probably other terms and certainly other terms and other languages. There's a group in Spain that's very supportive of the community cats podcast and they took our community cats pyramid and turned it all into Spanish and everything and so they've done a great job with that so I don't speak Spanish. I don't read Spanish very well. And but it looks like they did a good job. Got nachos in there. Daniel Lay 22:42 It was good spirit is just great to say that. Now. You mentioned kittens before is the process any different for kittens compared to adult cats? Stacy Lebaron 22:50 So I I strongly promote early age spay neuter for kittens. So when kittens are about two pounds, they can get spayed or neutered, and many people think that you need to wait until they're six months old, you can get pregnant at four months of age as a kitten. So that window that extra two month window is really a risky time period. And also, if you've ever lived with a cat in heat, it's not much fun. And if you've ever lived with a male cat that starts spraying around the house, that's not much fun. And so both of those scenarios really encourage people to throw those cats out of the house because of their behavior being so obnoxious, that, you know, there's another chance for them to go outside and start a feral cat colony. So we really try and encourage the early process. For kittens. It's great. It's, it's really they, they have their surgery and they're up and they're bouncing around and they're beating each other up by the end of the day. So it's a really easy surgery. For a full grown adult female or an adult female cat. That's had a literal To have kittens. Getting spayed is a much longer process much more challenging. And the recovery is several days rather than several hours. That makes sense. Hasara Lay 24:13 I wanted to kind of circle back to something that we were talking about before we were talking about taking responsibility for a colony of cats. I imagined that it can be quite a responsibility. Is there a way that you should you can find someone else that can help you out or anyone else that you can team up with? Stacy Lebaron 24:31 Yeah, well, that goes back to getting to know your neighborhood and know the people in your neighborhood because oftentimes, they'll be feeding the cats too. And, and you should team up. It's very exhausting to be one person solely responsible for a group of cats. And I talked to people on a daily basis that are doing this. And it's emotionally gut wrenching because they are individually living the ups and downs of that colony. The vulnerabilities, the money, the financial They're paying for their food, they're paying for their spaying and neutering. And it just, it does get to them over a period of time because it's, it's, you know, 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, they're there their family and and many of them say, Well, I'm the only one that you know, is helping them. And if there's a team around it, there's a lot more support. So even if you are I mean, it's a challenge. It's a challenge to be transparent with your society. It's very tough because you have to put yourself out there and say, Hey, is there someone else out here? Who cares about the cats but then there's always a risk of if you put yourself out there, maybe there's somebody doesn't like the cats who sees this and gets agitated. So it's a very delicate dance. But it's better to have a partner in crime, that's for sure. Or not crime. I don't mean partner. You know what I mean to say that, you know, Daniel Lay 25:49 teamwork is always better. Stacy Lebaron 25:52 Teamwork is always better, that's for sure. Daniel Lay 25:54 Yes. Shifting gears a little bit. We've heard about something called a Batmobile that you had set up. Can you tell us a little bit about it and What it is? Stacy Lebaron 26:01 Sure, sure I love the cat mobile. So, back in 2007, the Merrimack River feline rescue society was given a donation to support spay neuter initiative, whatever that might be. And about 10 years earlier at one of our annual meetings, I had dr. john Kelton piano from the team van and Connecticut, come and speak to our organization and he was running a mobile spay neuter clinic in Connecticut and had started the first one. And I thought that program sounded awesome. And I said, you know, we need to have one of those. And so in 2008, we started our own mobile spay neuter clinic and our numbers and our shelters in the area shelters and we had formed a collaborative effort in the region called the Massachusetts animal coalition. And to better assess how we were doing with our numbers in the shelters, and the adult cat numbers were still unchanged at that point in time, the shelters were taking In the same number of cats, they were still euthanizing the same number of cats. Your life wasn't changing too dramatically for them. And once we started the cat Movil, and then some other programs started happening, which was really providing low cost or free spay neuter services for owned cats in the community. Then the number started dropping at the shelters dramatically. And I convinced one organization just to do neuters for $5 for the month of February. And they were like, Alright, well, we'll try it, you know, it's slow. We have the vets around let's try it and see and their intake numbers for kittens dropped dramatically that spring. So they thought Oh, well, there might be something to this. So they continued on with a low cost spay neuter program so so yeah, we do about 40 cats a day you people we drive the cat mobile to five different locations every week. People drop their cats off in the morning. The surgeries are done on the on the vehicle. The vehicle is like a 35 foot RV filled with cages, and one vet and one technician. And they just go crazy doing surgeries all day long. And they do about 30 cats a day. And they, they send them out at the end of the day, and they've done over 65,000 cats now. Hasara Lay 28:19 Wow. That's incredible. That's amazing. Oh, one thing that keeps coming to me as you're talking is that in order to help community cats, we really do need to know about what's available in our community in terms of things like the automobile or what veterinarians are available, what organizations we can reach out to. So I know the cat explore community in the grand scale of things is relatively small, but what we might do is we'll set up a thread in our Facebook group, cat explorer community where we'll share everyone can go in there and share about the community of organizations that they know of that support these initiatives. Because I think like as you're talking I'm like, I don't know any in Sydney, which is where we live. So I'm going to be doing some googling and trying to find some I'll try and share on that thread as well. So if you no one in your area, just come to their Facebook, come to our Facebook group and I'll leave a link to that in our in the episode description for this as well. So I just came across you Stacy through the community cats podcast. Can you tell us a bit about the podcast? Stacy Lebaron 29:16 Yeah, sure. So the community cats podcast is a podcast. And if everybody's listening to this podcast, we all know what a podcast is, which it's very funny. When we go to animal welfare shows and stuff. everybody walks up and they asked, What's the podcast? And then I did a table at a podcast conference and there was like, what's the community cat? So it's, we get the flip side. It was really funny. It was a very different weekend for us. But But anyway, the community cats podcast has been around since the spring of 2016. We have over 350 episodes. We're available on all the platforms and basically we interview a wide range of different people. So it can be you know, folks like cat explorer folks, as well as veterinarians folks that are in the show. During World individuals, I've had some individual care takers trying to understand that whole emotional level of work that they do. I have had feline behaviorists on have pretty much you name it authors. I have a lot of authors and documentary producers. So you name it. I, you know, I got it. I guess it's a variety show for cat lovers and folks that want to turn their passion for cats into action, which is sort of my tagline. So if you have a passion for cats, you want to turn into action. This is where we're going to show you how to do it. And it's fun show it's about 20 minutes 20 to five minutes. Every week, we come out with it. I write a blog, I have an E news. It's just fun. And the reason I started the show was because I had run a mentoring program at the Merrimack River feline rescue society and was great I mentored at groups all around the country on how to start a trap neuter return program and how to support it with funding. And at the time when I left, we lost our funding and I had 400 groups on my waiting list and I'm I never want to leave someone behind. So I wanted to do something. So I can at least provide some education for those folks to encourage them to really keep pushing and striving to get there trap neuter return programs going. And, and that's how the podcast was born. Daniel Lay 31:15 That's a great story. And so you mentioned turning your passion for cat into action. How can we, in our own little ways help the community cats? Stacy Lebaron 31:24 Yeah, well, it's funny, you know, you just suggested about creating the sort of resource within the Facebook group and that's a conversation I was literally just having the other day. There used to be a great listing of organizations all around the United States that was being maintained by a national organization and they have not been doing it for the last like four years. So there really is a very limited there's very limited, concentrated online information about feral cat or trap neuter return organizations, community cat groups, and so just even doing getting the resources together as great being willing to ask your neighbors, if anyone's taking care of the cats understanding more about what are the services your community can offer those cats, because not every community offers everything. Not every community offers free spay neuter services for community cats, you know, understanding what the adoption program is like in the community and and how you can advocate for more resources for that group to be able to have them be proactive and progressive with their programs for cats. And it doesn't all mean about all cats have to come in. It just means that there needs to be an understanding, it may be a function of resources that they can't do what they need to do. There might be just even small ways creating a cat Action Team that partners with the local humane society that might not even deal with cats at all, but you can have a little subsection that you've partnered up and they utilize their charitable arm. There's lots of partnerships and collaborations, getting groups together doing a meetup, because even do a local meetup of all the groups maybe they don't talk to each other. So it's it's sort of doing the SWOT analysis for folks that, you know, understanding a SWOT analysis and and then seeing you know, maybe what what are the gaps where you could fill in and help out understanding your own strengths and weaknesses. Maybe that's not for you, maybe you you want to volunteer and, you know, just do cat caretaking, which I don't mean, I mean, just in capital words, letters, because that's really important and critical. But also you might have other skills, that's what I brought to the table was a lot of other skills rather than scooping litter boxes, which is really not my favorite thing to do. Hasara Lay 33:38 Not mine either. But you're right, it's totally looking at what skill set each of us have, and finding a way that we can utilize that skill set within our resources as well. And I think um, like just as you're talking because I was like it would be quite expensive to span you know, so many cats, but one thing that each of us can do is because I know a lot of, for example in Sydney, a lot of the council's Like one or two days, one or two weekends a year, they will be doing free spay and neuter. So it's just keeping your eyes out for those fat free spay and neuter days or some pet stores do that as well. they team up with the local veterinarians and maybe just keeping an eye out for those things. And if you don't have the resources to help a specific colony, maybe what you can do is keep an eye out for those things that let that cut the people who are looking after that colony know about those days, because all their time is probably spent in terms of looking after the actual cat. So there are so many different ways that we can help out Stacy Lebaron 34:30 and understanding you know, how are those weekends funded, and then, you know, it might be $1 amount that is able to be raised. And if it comes down to dollar resources, maybe there's a way to do some fundraising to buy another weekend. You know, it's you never know, we partner with an organization in the Boston area, about four to provide free vaccinations and microchipping in a community assist 300 animals, and, you know, it's we do the fundraising and then an or another organization provides the services. So it's not, it's not just up to one organization, it's there can be all these collaborations between individuals, organizations, businesses, nonprofits, for profits, you can have all these sort of hybrid type things going on, and you'll be a lot more effective and productive. Daniel Lay 35:25 So you mentioned previously that those that list which has now been, you know, not kept up to date. So it's very hard to find current information, how do you find a reputable organization to work with them? Stacy Lebaron 35:36 That's a it's a, it's a good question. And I would wonder what a reputable organization really is defined as being, I find that someone might think a reputable organization or organization that isn't so good. It might be an organization that's overwhelmed that they've taken on more than they can handle. That's the type of thing that I see. With organizations, sometimes they just, they just, it's like that day I walked into the shelter and they had 80 cats, and they were totally overwhelmed. And you know this, I can't even imagine what they were dealing with back then. Because now I can't even imagine that kind of a scenario happening. But it's, I would join in and see what the problems are and see how that I could help make a difference to help alleviate that overload. Now, you know, certainly, maybe there are people stealing money and all that kind of stuff I and you can go to GuideStar. There are a lot of online rating agencies. So you can certainly look at the online resources and see where their ratings are. And, but if you're looking at a very small organization that doesn't have to do its full tax reporting, they usually have like a small postcard. If it's a really small, small group, then you're gonna have to just Go in there in. It's very grassroots and just and meet the people and learn and understand Listen, I say Listen, listen, listen and, and try and understand and then offer your help and, and the other thing is, is offer your outreach, you know, outreach into your own networks to find the people that are needed to help the organizations be able to grow. And I find that the weakest part is the board level that the Board of Directors of these small groups, they're so busy doing the doing that they can't do the managing and the growing of the organization, and they really need a different skill set. And, or just more hours in the day, which we don't have. So they just need more people that can help support at that managerial level, to be able to help them do what they need to do. One thing I always said to the folks that were out trapping for Mr. FRS all the time, I said, you know, you have to understand, for every one of you I need for fundraisers, because there's you know, so much fundraising that goes on to help support The work that these folks are doing, they're out there trapping at one o'clock in the morning, they're doing an incredible job. But there's a lot of fundraising that has to go on behind that to support the work that they're doing that something Hasara Lay 38:10 that we don't really think about is that that organizational structure that's quite required. And from a pencil experience for those who are trying to progress in their corporate careers, it's a great opportunity to be on a board for it. organization as well, because that's something not only do you learn so much, and you're supporting the community, those community cats in the amazing work that organizations doing, but you're also getting something great for your resume and CV as well. So that's something awesome as well, a concern that I've often had by those who are fostering or they're helping rescue animals or they're doing TNR is that they get really attached to the animals they work with, which makes it a lot harder for them to either release them back into their colonies or in the case of if you're fostering is to give them up for adoption. How do you manage that attachment when that occurs? Especially when you have to say no, say goodbye. But you know what I mean? Stacy Lebaron 39:05 Yeah, right. Right. Right. Well, so being a foster home is challenging. And there are various different types of foster homes to, there are foster homes. Some people call them hospice, or hot in hospice. So those are for the cats that are maybe older, and that might have are going to spend the rest of their days with you. And so that's one type of foster care. So in that case, you don't have to worry about I mean, unfortunately, the cats going to leave but the cats going to probably pass away with you. And that's a very special group of people. With regards to fostering adult cats that are up for adoption, as well as kittens, it's it is tough, it's tough. And but yet you have to keep your mind on the big picture and what you're there for. You're helping the community in the fact that if you start adopting a lot of cats, that means you're not going to be able to foster anymore cats. And therefore, you're bottlenecking the system up. And that's not what you signed up for when you signed up to be a foster home, you signed up to be a foster home, rather than a dot, you should have just adopted them in the first place. However, there's a term called foster failure ring. And I have I'm part of that club. And I'm sure many other people are part of that club too. And it's something that's pretty accepted in our world. And and appreciated. Certainly, you know, it's just what it's what it is. But there are a lot of people out there who feel very strongly that if you're a foster home, you need to you have to give them up you have to give them up and I'm a little bit less strict, because I do know I there was one foster that I adopted out and I just cried like crazy afterwards. And, you know, I realized at that point in time that I might have had a bit of enough on the foster care front and I had to take a little bit of a rest before I could, I mean, that cat went to a perfectly wonderful home. It does a great job. family and all that stuff. But for me, it was just a very sad day. It was a happy, sad day. But it was a sad day. And I realized I just needed to take a break. And that's another thing in this world that everybody needs to be very careful of is that don't get yourself overwhelmed. Don't get yourself over committed. And then because then you're going to make sort of irrational decisions, and maybe fill up your house with too many cats and that kind of thing. And it's really important to keep everything in perspective and manage your time and make sure you're not getting yourself overwhelmed. Daniel Lay 41:33 It is a great point that there is that emotional command as, as well as that physical demand. And that's something that you know, oftentimes gets forgotten when you think about foster parents, you know, people immediately think about the work involved, you know, taking care of 234 cats and feeding them playing the key leader, looking after them, possibly bottle feeding them if they're really young kittens, but that emotional demand as well, you know, all throughout that process. Afterward is something that hasn't been talked about too much. But it's definitely there. Now talking about, you know, rescues and TNR. And we've touched on some of these things before, what resources do you have for people who want to get involved in these sort of things? Stacy Lebaron 42:16 Yeah, so obviously, I have the podcasts that I hope people will tune into and enjoy on a regular basis. And some of the key components that I'd like to point out to your listeners if they want to get into sort of the philosophical and ideological part of where I think that we can be most impactful with regards to community cat, Poppy overpopulation, and just community cat wellness in general. I would really like to reference people to our community cat pyramid story really talks about how we can best use our resources for the greatest impact. And, and because I think we sometimes are a little bit dysfunctional about how we're using our resources with regard two cats in the community. And I also think it's important to think about targeting. And when I talk about targeting, that's a language thing that most people are like, well, what's targeting? So in, in many communities, there are just certain sections of towns in the town where there's a lot of community cats. And so you want to focus your resources and your programs in the areas with the greatest numbers of community cats. So you can sort of have a big splash and with a good ripple effect in that community, and you're you'll reduce the number of cats dramatically in that in that area, which has a great impact on the resources of the shelters in the area. And not many people as individuals think that way. I'm hoping that organizations are starting to think strategically that way with regards to their resources, but as individuals, we don't necessarily think of it and targeting for an individual would be really focusing on one colony at a time. Not necessarily going I'll help two cats at this colony and I'll help two cats at this. colony, it's rather focusing on just ensuring that you've got one colony under control. So those aren't specific, like how to resources. But I think they're important things to think about the Humane Society, the United States has some great resources, handbooks that folks can look at. And I also referenced people to neighborhood cats and Alley Cat allies as also, those are great resources for somebody who's just starting out and wants to learn about how to trap a cat how to identify a cat as to be whether they're lost or stray, how to make a determination of whether to return a cat or whether a cat is socialized and that kind of thing. They have great factsheets and wonderful information for folks who are just starting out. So I would send people that way. Daniel Lay 44:47 Thank you. And so we'll put links to those resources in our show notes so that people can find them. And I think what you were saying in terms of strategic strategic direction, two very important like getting everyone to move in the same direction. And try and achieve the same outcomes is very powerful, because then that way, when we join out combined effort together, it can actually make a big difference. Little, little bits and pieces are great. And but when they're scattered, they make a small ripple effect. But when you put together these efforts into those same directions, going through the same outcomes, it can become this huge wave that affects incredible and long lasting change. Now, related to that, we've got a couple of people in our community who enjoy and have a passion for fostering cats and rescuing. And we know that along the lines of resources, you've got a community cats. Greg, can you tell us a little bit about that program? Stacy Lebaron 45:36 Yeah, sure. So the community cast Grant Program is a program at this point in time only for 501 C, three organizations in the United States. So but we hope at some point in time, we'll be more global, but it's a really great program. And maybe it's something that can be replicated in other countries. The way the program works is folks will fill out a grant application and it's Really focusing on organizations that have their annual income revenues are about $100,000 us or less so very small organizations. And then we, we actually coach them through a fundraising process. So we're teaching small organizations how to fundraise. And so they fundraise. They try and raise over $1,000 in a three month period doing something new that they've never done. And the community cats grants will match that funding. And it really is primarily mentoring program to help organizations with getting fundraising experience you wouldn't believe some of the things that we hear. There are organizations where they've even never asked their board members for donations, or they haven't had ever sent out a holiday appeal. Or they have like never thought about doing a donation can program or a donation in a trap program. Or they haven't even thought about putting a donation can at the booth at the fair They've done for the last 15 years. So simple things that they haven't done. They haven't asked for donations on Facebook, a lot of them have not asked for donations on Facebook. So that's usually one that we send them to as an option. And others they like doing kitten yoga classes as a fundraiser. So that's one of their more exciting events. Another one did a beer crawl in their community. And they they had a fun time doing with like they had like little trap things set up. Like during the whole beer crawl, it was all themed with cats and beer. And I think they had a very cute name around that. It's, it's fun. They've had some, you know, a lot of dress up things. Some people have gone really crazy. And then other people are more more standard, writing their holiday appeal that they have never written that they should have written in the first year. They were in business, but it's amazing. But once they do it, then they're great. And usually that event continues on and on beyond that first year. So there's a sustainability and a scalability that goes along with that. So it's all good because the funds go directly to supporting spaying and neutering. Daniel Lay 48:04 It really is the idea of teaching a man to fish as opposed to just showing them in that, you know, it gets that long lasting impact. And it really brings them to that next level and elevate the elevates that organization up. Stacy Lebaron 48:15 Yeah. And I just like to add that we do this program in a group format. So they have group calls. So there's like 10 groups on the call, and they develop relationships. So even though they're not in the same community, they're creating community, and then they have this friendship and support. So they share ideas amongst themselves, and they have this friendship that continues on beyond the program. Daniel Lay 48:37 Well, Stacy will come up towards the end of the podcast. And before we let you go, we're gonna jump into our final four questions. The first one being What's one piece of advice that you would give to people who are new to helping community cats? Stacy Lebaron 48:49 So I would say and I've sort of thought about it or mentioned it a little bit earlier is go slow. So when we join an organization or get involved with an organization, you get Volunteer form and like I can do that, oh, I can do that. And I can do that too. And so you just want to, you want to be careful about jumping right in and getting over committed, because that's usually can be disastrous. Hasara Lay 49:13 So what has been the most entertaining comment someone has said to you about rescuing cats or community cats? Stacy Lebaron 49:18 Yeah, this was a tough question. It's an interesting question. I have. No, I have a lot of conversations around. You know why you have to put cats back. So I'd say the most interesting comments to me, have been for me, they happened in the 90s when I was in my own little world, in doing what I was doing, and I didn't realize trap neuter return wasn't happening around the country. So when I went to my first national conference, they were so surprised that we weren't euthanizing cats in the organization that I was part of. So we use a terminal knology a new no kill organization. And so back then in the 90s, there weren't that many of them. And so it was I don't know about entertaining but it was shocking to me that so many organizations weren't doing what we were doing and it just showed how how much we were in the bubble and, and I just looked at people like really, that you don't do that. Like I was, I was an innocent back then so somewhat entertaining because I had to laugh because I just, I, you know, euthanizing a healthy cat has just never been in my DNA at all. It's just never been an option. So I just it's just never considered it. So it surprised me a lot. So I'd say that sort of the strangest thing, but in the 90s, things were very strange because I felt like we were very separated. I think animal welfare is come much closer together, but there's still a huge amount of the ground we need to cover. Daniel Lay 50:56 Who in the community cats space inspires you. Stacy Lebaron 50:59 So So Brian cordis of neighborhood cats has always been a tremendous mentor for myself and and he is he can be found at our neighborhood cats can be found at neighborhood cats on Facebook. And then their handles on Twitter and Instagram are NBR hood cats also. But he's been a tremendous inspiration for myself. He's done some great work in New York and he is now in Hawaii too. But I look at him as a leader. There's a great small group and Ameren of Metro Denver cat which is another organization that is really understands that whole targeting concept and really can show and they have popped up community cat centers. And so it's a great idea and that's it. That's really fun. Hasara Lay 51:49 Awesome. So what product or service a program has been a game changer and put all the amazing work he do. Stacy Lebaron 51:55 I'm a huge fan of the Batmobile program. So I mean I back and I just, I really, really love the cat mobile program. I have my education hat on at this point in time. So I love the online cat conference we do the online kitten conference that we have behavior day, we're going to do a feline leukemia advocacy day so and we have our neighborhood cats webinars. So, you know, on the community cats podcast website, there's all those resources there. But in terms of the thing that I'm really proud of, and really seeing the impact I just I love our cat mobile and we had to at one point in time, but back down to one but I think that the cat mobile is just pretty awesome. Daniel Lay 52:39 Stacey, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a blast. Where can we find you and the community cats podcast online? Stacy Lebaron 52:46 Yeah, so the websites community cats podcast calm and then Facebook is at community cats podcast. Instagram is also at community cats podcast and Twitter is community cats p Hasara Lay 52:59 one Awesome. So what I'll do is we'll put all those links and all those links to those amazing resources that you mentioned in the show notes for today, which will be available at cat explorer.co forward slash podcast. And you can also get to that by hitting the episode description on your podcasting app. Daniel Lay 53:14 Thank you so much for listening today. Did you know that leaving a review for the cat explorer podcast helps continue these podcast reviews help us find sponsors who help fund this podcast. So it would mean the world to us if you could leave a review. Wherever you listen. We'll read it out on a future episode. Thank you so much for being part of the cat explorer community. That's it for today. We'll catch you next time. In the meantime, enjoy giving your kitty the world Transcribed by